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Forum:Battle of Timeline Theories
Rowdycmoore 04:17, 19 October 2008 (UTC)Well, since it doesn't look like Zeldapedia will have its "own" Timeline theory, I've decided to create this page where I invite everyone to present their own theories, while critiquing and questioning the others. Let the bloodbath begin! I'll start by posting my own theory: The Minish Cap | Four Swords | Ocarina of Time (Ganondorf's attempted execution occurs during Link's 7-year absence) / \ Majora's Mask Twilight Princess | | Knights of Hyrule Oracle Games and Wisemen | seal Ganon Ganon's servants kill Link and revive Ganon, leading to Great Flood | | Four Swords Adventures Wind Waker | | A Link to the Past Phantom Hourglass | Link's Awakening | Hylians migrate north. Zelda hides Triforce of Courage and is put to sleep | Legend of Zelda | The Adventure of Link This is Hero of Time 87's timeline and I agree with it: Creation of Hyrule and the Triforce | Hyrulean Civil War | Imprisoning War (Ocarina of Time) / \ The Great Flood Majora's Mask | | The Wind Waker Ganondorf's Execution | | Phantom Hourglass Zant's Invasion of Hyrule | (Twilight Princess) Link and Tetra find and | establish a new Hyrule. Agahnim becomes a host for Ganondorf's soul. | | War of the Bound Chest War of the Wizard | (A Link to the Past) The Minish Cap | | Revival of Ganon Four Swords (Oracle of Seasons/'Ages') | | Four Swords Adventures Awakening of the Wind Fish | (Link's Awakening) One of the Zeldas is put to sleep until Zelda II. | The Legend of Zelda | The Adventure of Link There are actually a few inconsistencies in your timeline. #Ocarina of Time has been confirmed to be the first in the series. #Twilight Princess and The Wind Waker have been confirmed to be in different timelines. #How do Ganondorf's servants revive him? Twinrova failed so miserably in the Oracle games. #Ganondorf was not "revived" for the Great Flood. He escaped from the Sacred Realm. Xykeb Yvolix '' '' 06:18, 19 October 2008 (UTC) User:Rowdycmoore Thank you for submitting the second theory. There are a few difficulties I see with it, but here are the biggest: I don't see how any game directly involving the Triforce can occur after Wind Waker, since the Triforce was left underwater in the re-submerged Hyrule. It doesn't make sense how Twilight Princess and Majora's Mask are in the same timeline (which would be the "child" one). TP has Ganondorf escaping a Sacred Realm he is trapped in with only the Triforce of Power, which matches up with OoT's conclusion in the "adult" timeline There's an unresolved issue involving LttP coming after Twilight Princess. You do present a theory into Ganon's revival, but not one as to how he is re-banished to the Sacred Realm with the complete Triforce (nor how the Triforce returns to the Sacred Realm for Ganon to find). As for your questions into my theory: OoT was confirmed as the first of the series, but that was nearly six years prior to Minish Cap's release. So it's possible that MC can occur first. How is Ganon revived in my theory? The same way his servants try to do so in Adventure of Link - kill Link and use his blood. Meanwhile, his Sacred Realm escape detailed in Wind Waker can refer to the one during Twilight Princess, prior to his death. If the directors have confirmed that TP and WW are in different timelines, I guess I have to go along with that and adjust mine as best as possible. Rowdycmoore Ho boy. I've been trying to figure out how Twilight Princess and Wind Waker can be in different timelines, and it just doesn't make sense. They both have storylines that match up with OoT's conclusion for the Adult timeline: WW's backstory talks of the Hero of Time banishing the great evil, while TP has Ganon trapped in the Sacred Realm with only the Triforce of Power. If TP's directors say it is in a separate timeline, this just confirms what I've believed all along - that these guys are just pulling storylines out their rear ends with no logic whatsoever. Rowdycmoore I think I may finally have something else that works: The Minish Cap | Four Swords | Ocarina of Time / \ Majora's Mask Wind Waker | | Four Swords Adventures Phantom Hourglass | A Link to the Past | Link's Awakening | Twilight Princess | Legend of Zelda | The Adventure of Link | Oracle Games This still maintains some of the principles I had with the original posting: - Ganon is sealed within the Dark World in the Child Timeline by the Knights of Hyrule while Link is off during Majora's Mask - LttP's Zelda is the one who hides the Triforce of Courage and is put to sleep - TP's Link is not directly from the same bloodline (the fact that this one is right-handed may be a clue) - Sometime after TP, that Link is either killed by Ganon's servants who use his blood to revive him, or he simply leaves Hyrule without knowing that Ganon isn't really dead. This sets up LoZ, which is when one of the original Link line returns to Hyrule (after his ancestor departed in Link's Awakening) I'm also suspecting there's a reason at least two of the last four games are in the Adult timeline. The creators may realize they had no stories on this side and are quickly trying to add them to back up their split timeline premise. Okay first of all i just want to clearify that tp's backstory doesn't talk about the sacared realm. Link from oot warned zelda about ganondorf and was somehow found guilty and he was going to be excuted. it's not the same back story as wind waker. And i don't see how mc could be first. first of all there was a war in hryule a couple years before oot link was born i don't recall there being a war after or during mc. And how could the four sword be hidden all those years then just suddenly reappear in four swords adventures with link, and zelda somehow knowing that Vatti was in the four swords for no apparent reason i don't think he lived for more then a hundred years and survived the events of oot and mm. Rowdycmoore Admittedly, Minish Cap and Four Swords - actually, all the games Capcom cooperated with Nintendo on - are what really throw a monkey wrench into so many timeline theories. I've heard more than a few people agree that their stories make the least sense in connecting with the other games in the series; many want to believe that they aren't part of the true series at all. Wasn't the dark world the sacared realm corrupted by gannon. And one more question if OOT covers the imprisoning war and alttp was the first time u heard about it. hmm id on't see how it could fit in the child line. And about the knights of hryule sealing gannon in the dark world in the imprisoning war. Well if the dark world is the sacared realm corrupted by gannon then i think. u know how people can tell a story many many many many many times eventually one person screws the story up and the next one does and the next one does. so what i'm trying to say is the knights of hryule imprisoning gannon in the imprisonning war was really link at the end of oot beating ganondorf. the story just got retold so many times after so many years that it got screwed up. Ahem--Power courage wisdom and time 04:37, 25 November 2008 (UTC) MC | FS | FSA | OOT------- | | WW MM------ | | | PH TLOZ TP | AOL | ALTTP | LA | Oracles 0.0 sorry that was hard to understan. Grandtriforce999 05:23, 27 November 2008 (UTC) I don't believe that Ganondorf was executed in Twilight princess because Link told the king about the events of OoT. Why? If the king doesn't believe in Zelda's prophetic dreams, then I doubt he will believe that Link knows what will happen because he already experienced it. Make sense?--[[User:Halberdier|'Halberdier']] [[User talk:Halberdier|''Reporting for Duty!]] 17:42, 27 November 2008 (UTC) This is my timeline: Planet Hylia's History Timeline A (Original): MC - OoT - WW/PH/ST Timeline B (Alternative): MC - OoT/MM - TP - FS/FSA - ALttP - OoS/OoA/LA - LoZ/AoL *The three Golden Goddesses descend upon the cosmos and create the planet, Hylia. *Different organisms live on Hylia. The creatures are placed into four groups *Animals: Non-sentient creatures that have animal cells. They can form packs but aren't smart enough for societies or languages. (i.e., Dogs, cats, birds, frogs) *Plants: Any foliage that consists of plant cells and doesn't have sentient (or any) mind. (i.e. Trees, plants, flowers) *Monsters: Non or near-sentient creatures that form packs. The term is usually degrading and subjective as many monsters are highly intelligent. However, they are considered to be subhuman and beneath the People. Monsters are broken into Sub-groups, or species. (i.e. Moblins, Octoroks, Darknuts) *People: Sentient life-forms who have the intelligence to create society and all of its add-ons, such as language, government, arts, and tools. People are usually considered to be the highest of the "food chain" and look down upon Monsters. People currently rule Hylia (i.e. Hylians, OoT/MM/TP Zoras, Gorons, Calatians) *A War between the People (mostly Hylians and Humans) and Monsters occur. This is known as the War of the Bound Chest and ends with the Hylians sealing the Monster Race within a chest with the Picori Blade. The Hylians group together and a small settlement is formed. It is called Hyrule. *The events of Minish Cap occur. The son of a blacksmith defeats the sorcerer Vaati and frees the settlement from his control. Sometime later, before FS, Vaati is sealed inside the Foursword. * A Civil War erupts between the People races: Hylians (and humans), Gorons, Zoras, Gerudos, and Dark Interlopers for control of the Triforce. The Dark Interlopers gain access to the Triforce, but are banned to the Twilight Realm by the goddesses. * The Civil War continues and the Goddesses decide to let the People fight among themselves. The War ends in a peace treaty among the four great people and they all, except for the Gerudo, form the new Kingdom of Hyrule. *10 years later, the child events of OoT occur. A split in the timeline happens and things become crazy. Timeline A: *A young boy from the Kokiri Forest pulls out the Master Sword, allowing the Gerudo King, Ganondorf, to gain access to the Triforce of Power, which he uses to rule Hyrule for 7 terrible years. The young boy awakens from his coma and makes up for his sin by becoming the Hero of Time and saves the land from the Evil King. Ganondorf is sealed in the Sacred Realm for 100+ years, the Hero returns to his time (causing the split) and Hyrule rebuilds. *Ganondorf, in control of the Monster Race, uses them to kill the Sages of Earth and Wind, weakening the Master Sword enough for his body to enter the Light World. He uses this time to attack Hyrule. With no hero around, the goddesses flood Hyrule, allowing the citizens to live on mountaintops/islands. *Centuries past and the events of Wind Waker occur. The Hero of Winds defeats Ganondorf and the Triforce destroys the preserved Hyrule. The Hero and the pirate, Tetra, head out into the Sea in search of a new land to conquer. These events are depicted in Phantom Hourglass and probably Spirit Trackers. Timeline B: *The young boy returns from the future and warns Zelda and her father of the events. Upon seeing the Triforce mark on the boy's hand, the King believes him and raises his army for Ganondorf's attack. Ganondorf is defeated and imprisoned. He is executed, but because of the Triforce splitting in the alternate future, Ganondorf receives the Triforce of Power's power. He is imprisoned in the Twilight Realm. *The young boy, now a hero, travels to Termina in search for his buddy Navi. He saves the alternate world from uncertain demise and returns to see a significant amount of time has passed. *At some point, a colony of humans (probably led by the young hero) was formed in the forest, becoming Ordon Village. *The events of Twilight Princess occur, with a new Hero defeating Zant and Ganondorf. Ganondorf is killed but due to the reincarnation cycle that Hyrule follows (when someone dies, they become ghosts or are reincarnated), Ganondorf returns in FSA. He has no memory of his past, but does carry the power-hungriness from his past life. *FS/FSA occurs. Vaati escapes, but a new hero, the Foursword Heroes, defeat Vaati and seal Ganon, who has become corrupted with darkness upon touching the Trident of Power, into the Foursword. *Gates into the Dark World are everywhere, sucking people into the Sacred Land/Dark World. The Foursword is swallowed as well and Ganon appears in the Sacred Land. He touches the Triforce and because he completes all three requirements of the Triforce (He is powerful, his knowledge of his past self - awakened by the Trident -, and his fearlessness to continue to strive for his goals), he obtains the full power. However, he is stuck inside the Dark World when all the portals were closed. *The events of ALttP occur. The Royal Knights' Descendant defeats Agahnim and kills Ganon with the use of the Master Sword and the Silver Arrows. He then uses the Triforce to destroy the Dark World and reverts Hyrule to normal. He gives the Triforce to the Royal Family for safe keeping. *Some time later, a young lad travels to Hyrule Castle and locates the Triforce. He touches the golden triangles and is transported to Holodrum/Labrynna. The events of OoS/A occur, with part of Ganon returning from the dead (it is possible to be revived from the dead as long as the time taken to revive doesn't exceed the time it takes to be reincarnated, i.e. one cannot revive the Hero of Time after the events of TP because he is already reincarnated as the Twilight Hero.) and being defeated by the boy. The other portion of Ganon's soul floats between the realms. The boy goes on a journey throughout the world, but allows the Triforce to fly back to Hyrule. *The events of LA happen, with the boy awakening from his dream/adventure. He floats to the land of Calatia(?) and lives the rest of his days there.' *The Kingdom of Hyrule expands outward, becoming an Empire. What was originally Hyrule is now known as Southern Hyrule. *Years later, the King, knowing of the dangers of the Triforce, splits it up into three. The Triforce of Courage is hidden in the Great Palace. The Triforce of Power is placed in a different location, probably Death Mountain. And the Triforce of Wisdom stays with them. The Legend of the Sleeping Princess occurs. *The spirit of Ganon finds the Triforce of Power and regains a form. He attacks Southern Hyrule, laying waste to it. Zelda hides the Triforce of Wisdom in 8 places. *The boy from OoS/A/LA's descendant, after hearing countless stories of Hyrule, travels to the Kingdom, only to see it in ruins. The events of Legend of Zelda happen. *With Ganon fully dead, the young hero embarks on a new adventure to awaken the sleeping Zelda. This is known as the Adventure of Link. *What happened next in either timeline is unknown... As with why the King listens to Link: Link still has the mark of the Triforce on his hand, which stays there whether you have a Triforce piece or not. Upon seeing the mark on Link, the King believes the young boy's story and waits for Ganondorf to strike. That is when Ganondorf is imprisoned and Link is chrishened a hero (Ganondorf would have failed anyways since only Link could pull the Master Sword) xThe_Guardianx 07:26, 9 April 2009 Ok, I guess it is impossible to make a perfect timeline, because the developers ignore it creating holes and alternate universes and what else, leaving to us the duty of trying to find a place to every piece of this puzzle. Anyway everytime a new game went out I tried to put it in its place and I really think I did quite well. ;) Here is my version of the timeline: Minish Cap | Ocarina of Time / \ Majora's Mask A Link to the Past | | Twilight Princess The Legend of Zelda | Link's Adventure | Oracle games | Link's Awakening | The Wind Waker | Phantom Hourglass To make everything clear here's an explanation for every chapter: Minish Cap: It was created to explain how Link got his hat (in game we even see a previous un-hatted incarnation of Link) and how the Triforce lost its central piece. Ocarina of Time: It tells the Imprisoning war. Majora's Mask: we all know it's the sequel in the child timeline. Twilight Princess: they wanted to tell a new version of the story, so they stated it is in an alternate timeline, and I agree. A Link to the Past: Ganon is freed from his seal. Someone may place some game between this game and OoT, but I think OoT was created as a prequel to this game and so there are no games between. Oh, and this IS NOT the last Master-sword related game! the ending phrase doesn't have any importance in the plot. The Legend of Zelda: Ganon is free at the beginning, so I think he somehow survived at the and of ALttP. Link's Adventure: The direct sequel to the first Zelda. Oracle games: These games could be placed even somewhere else, but I think their correct placement is here for one simplee reason: Ganon is dead and someone is trying to revive him using someone else's blood, just like in Link's adventure. I also believe this is the same Link as the previous two titles. I know there's the fact that Zelda doesn't know Link, but while I think it is just a way to present the character and this fact is not relevant, it is explainable assuming that this is simple another Zelda, in fact in Link's Awakening is shown that there's more than just one Zelda at once. Link's Awakening: A side story of no importance in the timeline, if you believe it to be the sequel to ALttP, then place it there. I placed it here of course because of the ending scene in the oracles. I know it could mean nothing, but it's the only reference to Link's Awakening in the whole series and so why not believing it? The Wind Waker: It tells the story of a death Hyrule, so it has to be placed in the end. Only recently with the new sequels I'm starting to believe Link will one day find a new Hyrule and the first two games could be happened there, but I think a good story must have an order and so in Minish Cap we see the birth of Hyrule and here its death. Phantom Hourglass: Direct sequel to WW. What about the Four Swords you ask? well, I think FS is placed right before FSA, but I think FSA was created as a new version of the story: in the end Ganon is left in a status never found in another game and more important it is said he became a pig-like creature in a different way, so I always believed FSA to be a retelling of the story, another version of it, just like GTA IV to GTA III. Many place it between OoT and ALttP because it explains how Ganon took his trident, but this whould mean he somehow escaped the Dark Realm before FSA and then he ascaped the Four Sword only to be sealed in the Dark Realm again. No way! Like I said for WW, a story need order, so he's sealed an then freed just once. The only place I think FSA could be is after TP. One last thing: I know Soul Calibur II is not canon, but I love to place it after ALttP, because NAMCO did a very good work creating a bakstory for Link and he really seems to be the same Link from ALttP.--Kombatgod (talk) 16:12, 4 May 2009 (UTC) Every one already has a split timeline, so I'm going to do a non-split timeline and explain. Ocarina of Time | Majora's Mask | Twilight Princess | Minish Cap | Four Swords | Four Swords Adventures | Link to the Past | Legend of Zelda (Original) | Zelda 2:Link's Adventure | Oracle of Seasons/Ages | Link's Awakening | Great Flood | Windwaker | Phantom Hourglass This timeline assumes that nothing happened on the adult path, as Link would have theoretically been erased from the adult path, meaning there could be no Zelda game featuring him on the Adult path. So this timeline uses the child path only, and fits every game on there. The order of the first three are pretty much undisputed, and have been confirmed by Nintendo. However, this one makes the assumption that Ganondorf died at the end of TP, which explains his abscense during the events of the Four Sword subseries, at least until he is reincarnated in FSA. At the end of FSA, he is sealed away; I assume he was sealed away in the Dark Realm. This event could very well be the Imprisoning War, as it fits the criteria: Many Knights of Hyrule died (especially the Element Guardians), and there were sages of sorts (the maidens.) Chances are, the legend got slightly changed around throughout the years, and "maidens" became "sages." In the next game, ALttP, Ganondorf escaped from the Dark World he was sealed in; however, he was defeated by Link. My theory is that he wasn't killed by Link; instead, the Triforce of Power was released from his body, and he used his last bit of magic to teleport to safety. This explains why he tried to reclaim the Triforce in LoZ; he was then killed, which led to AoL. After AoL, Link stopped another attempt at reviving Ganon in OoS/OoA. However, Link was shipwrecked on his way back from Labrynna/Holodorm, which led to the events of LA. During LA, I believe that there was a third attempt at reviving Ganondorf, which succeeded because Link wasn't there to stop it. This led to the Great Flood. The next events the logically follow are WW, which follows the Great Flood, and PH, which definitely follows WW. This is essentially what I do when I have a lot of time on my hands with little to do. --[[User:Moblin slayer|'Moblin']] [[User talk:Moblin slayer|Slayer]] 13:00, 22 June 2009 (UTC) Since Dark World exists, it is most defiantly in the Adult timeline, as the Sacred Realm has not been touched in the Child timeline. Not to interfere with Windwaker's developments, I'd assume it's placed after it and the toon link GBA/DS games. On the Sacred Realm page, it mentions that it's a millenia into the future of OoT. Is that about right? Also, in regards to the Child timeline, I'm abit unclear why Ganondorf has the Triforce of Power before his execution, as he has not had an attempt to enter the Sacred Realm before he is found of treason. The closest reason I can come to is that he was destined to have it, like Link was for the Triforce of Courage. --- My Timeline --- '''Adult' OoT->WW->PH->ST->LoZ->Z2 Child OoT->MM->TP->(OoS<->OoA)<->(MC->FS->FSA) Unknown ALttP->LA Ocarina of Time, Wind Waker, Phantom Hourglass, Spirit Tracks, Majora’s Mask, and Twilight Princess have had their positions officially confirmed. The Legend of Zelda: Officially occurs before Zelda II Zelda II: I believe that this game pretty much has to be in the Adult timeline. The towns are all named after the sages from OoC and this would only make since in the Adult timeline as they did not become major historical figures in the Child timeline. Oracles: We do not know which order they come in. The games as a set, however, most likely occur in the Child timeline due to the presence of Twinrova. The sisters died in the Adult timeline and while it is certainly possible that they could be revived, doing so raises the question of “Why revive Twinrova instead of Ganon?” Considering that any servant of Twinrova is, logically, a servant of Ganon, this would be legitimate question. Also, Koume and Kotake are either immortal or have extremely long life spans based on their dialogue in OoT so this is probably the same Twinrova. Minish Cap, Four Swords, and Four Swords Adventures: It has been officially confirmed that they go in this order. Because the Master Sword was re-forged prior to MC, these games must occur after any game with the Master Sword. (Yes, this means that this line of games and the Oracles could be switched.) These games also probably occur in the Child timeline due to the fact that, in the Adult timeline, the Master Sword is lodged in Ganondorf’s skull at the bottom of the sea and it is unlikely that anyone has recovered it. Also, FSA has the Helmaroc King who has died in the Adult timeline, which also leads me to believe these games occur in the Child timeline. (Although yes, it is possible that there is more than one Helmaroc King or that he was revived.) A Link to the Past: I honestly have no clue where this takes place. An argument could be made for either. (It also doesn’t help that I have yet to play this game.) Link’s Awakening: I heard somewhere that this game is a direct sequel to ALttP. If someone could confirm this for me it would be great. Otherwise, I don’t know where it could go. ---